What are we supposed to do? I know what you're thinking, "Why don't you just do time out in the shed." Well, we've tried that and it worked one time. But then Ingrid realized that time out in the shed was just like time out in the bathroom except with more toys. So here we are, convinced that it's important for our child to listen to us but without the tools to make that happen.
A few nights ago, in desperation I spanked Ingrid. She had come out of time out three times and finally I laid her across my knee and swatted her diapered rump. She craned her neck around and with wide, wet eyes burst into tears. She darted back to the bathroom, holding her face with both hands.
The next day when Ingrid wouldn't clean up her blocks Rachel started the time out count. "One, two ... I don't want to say the next number Ingrid."
"I'll clean up my blocks Mommy. I don't need spanking. Daddy gave me one yesterday and it is still working really great." But, last night after serial requests for cereal, Ingrid again wouldn't stay in time out. I told her that if she came out one more time I would have to give her a spanking, and sure enough she opened the door and came out.
This morning as we shared a bowl of cheerios Ingrid cheerfully said, "I don't like spankings, next time I'll do what you say." Oh how my heart stung when she said that.
But back to the question at hand (so to speak), what is the most effecting (or least damaging) way to teach a child about responsibility and consequences when they don't respect the rules? I often think about my brother Nate's comment, "We couldn't ever justify spanking because it seemed so hypocritical to teach your kid not to hit by, well, hitting them." On the other hand, how is being forced to stay in a room alone any less traumatic than getting spanked? Isn't the whole point of a negative consequence that the child doesn't like it?
Both Rachel and I were spanked growing up and we don't feel it traumatized us. I can remember my dad stepping into a room where mischief was being and slipping his belt off, making it into a loop, and pulling the ends to make an impossibly terrifying crack. If that wasn't enough he would lay us across his knees and spank us (with his hand, the belt was just theater). I bawled when I got spanked, not because of the pain, but because I knew how displeased my mom or dad was with me.
Is this just new-agey angst, or is there really a better way to help our children grow into responsible and loving people? Any insight would be appreciated.
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| Could you spank this child? |
The next day when Ingrid wouldn't clean up her blocks Rachel started the time out count. "One, two ... I don't want to say the next number Ingrid."
"I'll clean up my blocks Mommy. I don't need spanking. Daddy gave me one yesterday and it is still working really great." But, last night after serial requests for cereal, Ingrid again wouldn't stay in time out. I told her that if she came out one more time I would have to give her a spanking, and sure enough she opened the door and came out.
This morning as we shared a bowl of cheerios Ingrid cheerfully said, "I don't like spankings, next time I'll do what you say." Oh how my heart stung when she said that.
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| What about this one? |
Both Rachel and I were spanked growing up and we don't feel it traumatized us. I can remember my dad stepping into a room where mischief was being and slipping his belt off, making it into a loop, and pulling the ends to make an impossibly terrifying crack. If that wasn't enough he would lay us across his knees and spank us (with his hand, the belt was just theater). I bawled when I got spanked, not because of the pain, but because I knew how displeased my mom or dad was with me.
Is this just new-agey angst, or is there really a better way to help our children grow into responsible and loving people? Any insight would be appreciated.
I teach 6th grade, so the students are 11 and 12. I don't have advice for preschoolers, but I thought I'd share my most recent experience.
ReplyDeleteA couple of months ago, my students, possibly all in pubescent hormonal rage, as a whole seemed to be giving into every impulse and the climate of the classroom was changing. As advised by my administrator, I implemented a system where the students had tickets of two different colors. I would label their behavior and have them sign the associated color. It sounded like this: Johnny, talking in class, red ticket. Or, Johnny, prepared for his test with a pencil, yellow ticket. Or Johnny, supporting a classmate, yellow ticket. Each label was done without emotion, merely an observation. I also did not recommend a behavior that should replace the negative behavior, but it the child fixed it on his/her own, then I would often acknowledge that and label the positive behavior.
I'd collect the tickets throughout the day in a glass vase. Personal accountability was naturally introduced each time I collected the tickets as the students had to reckon with the number of tickets they had of each color. The students could also see their overall behavior by comparing the ratio of red to yellow tickets in the vase. For the first 9 days, I bagged their tickets and hung them up in the class so that they could see the number of yellow tickets increasing and the number of red tickets decreasing.
More frequently (as in several times per day) in the beginning and less frequently (as in once per day...or now once every few days) as the days passed, I would draw a ticket from the jar to see if the students earned a reward. If I drew a positive ticket, I would thank the student whose name was on the ticket and the class would usually cheer for this student, and we'd enjoy a reward. If I drew a negative ticket, I'd return it to the jar and return to teaching.
Rewards included youtube videos, additional recess or PE time, additional read-aloud time, 10 minutes of silent reading, a personal story from Miss Gause's life, a phone call to my sister, sending an email to a foreign exchange student we had in our class, sending an email to a friend of mine that volunteered once during PE, eating lunch inside the classroom or outside at the picnic tables, having recess in a different location from the 5th graders, Miss Gause participating in a 4-square tournament at recess, listening to poems read by people with cool accents on archive.org/librivox.org, etc. All of the rewards were free and easily implemented.
For the first several days, it was exhausting. For me. And for them.
A few days into this system I had a handful of students experiencing extreme emotional responses. I had students crying. I had students erupting in anger. I had two students who were convinced that I was singling them out and told that to their parents and the principal. One of these students ended up being suspended as a result of his actions while so emotionally charged. I felt like I was in the middle of a psychological experiment gone bad.
As fatiguing as it was, I had to see this through. Fortunately, we shot right through our roller coaster. Well, it didn't feel like it while in the middle of it, but reflecting on it, it was only a couple of days of extreme response. Then it slowed down, and the behavior of the students improved dramatically.
Now weeks later, I give out very few tickets. Students began signing their own negative behavior tickets without me labeling or requesting it. Sometimes I don't even see or hear what they did, but I'll see them pull out a ticket and sign it.
My goal going into this was to increase self-awareness and personal accountability. These things are being achieved.
The point is, whatever you choose, be consistent. And it may seem awful in the beginning stages, but consistency will lead to improved behavior.
Good luck. You love that little girl too much to hurt her and also too much to not teach her.
Cigarette butts.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the ideas Katie! I think our main problem has been that our simple time-out approach has worked so well up to now that we just hadn't really thought about alternatives.
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify, Sam is referring to the cigarette butts on the ground in the first photo of Ingrid (not suggesting them as a possible punishment).
Back to the question of punishment, even with the most non-violent disciplining, the act of correction itself still makes me uncomfortable. It seems like sticky territory. It has all the difficulties of a normal collision of values between equals, plus the complication that your child is not your equal in most ways. I'm just grateful for mercy and the resilience of the human spirit!
I swore off spanking years ago when I realized I was using it to release my own anger and frustration just as much as to actually discipline. And it's no fun to spank passively so we came up with another system. For the older boys we have a job jar, filled with lovely papers outlining various household tasks. They do something rotten, they draw a job. Then instead of spanking, or lecturing or wasting time in time out, they rectify their DEstructive behavior with CONstructive behavior. If they do it nicely, they get a bead in their jar (which is their positive reinforcement system, but that's another story). If they do it grudgingly they do it for free. That might be a little advanced for Ingrid who I'm assuming is still illiterate but even with our 20 month old the most effective thing seems to be realistic consequences. If she won't clean up, she doesn't get to do whatever she wants to do instead. No dinner, no treats. Hit somebody, lose your toy. Throw a fit in sacrament meeting, sit on Mom's lap in a dark room til you're ready to go back in. Then you aren't necessarily forcing a behavior, but making the alternative less appealing than obedience. Although the last time I spanked a kid, it was for getting off of time out and...he never got off time out again. Hmm maybe we should reinstate. Thanks for letting me guest post on your blog today.
ReplyDeleteI have absolutely no idea of how to raise children. A couple of years in primary has just made me feel more confused about discipline. Incidentally, I also have no idea how to correct, modify or shape adult behavior either.
ReplyDeleteBut my worst memories from my childhood were not when I was spanked a couple of times but when my parents were fed up with or disappointed with me. I do not know if that supports an argument for spanking or refraining.
It depends some on what the chip reacts to. The point is to help him or her understand that a certain behavior isn't tolerated. We put Phoebe in her booster seat with the seat belt on facing the pantry door so that she doesn't have the option of "coming out ." We came across this same issue some months ago, but Phoebe didn't respond to spanking at all. She just laughed at us. The seat belted time out seems to be working.
ReplyDeleteLOVE this post! Boy can you write, Ben! I love your tricks with words and captivating me with your stories and pictures. I have toiled over this same subject about 3 million times. I think I have it figured out.
ReplyDeleteHere is my advice: 1)Give her choices and some freedom in the matter. Then she won't fight back. "do you want to walk or be carried to time out? Which timer would you like me to use? then remind her ONE TIME that if she makes the choice to leave the time out spot, then you will have to find a more restrictive way to force her to stay. Tell her it would make her and you very sad to lock her in the closet. Remember...only tell her once. repeating your instructions offends her intelligence and makes her think she can play with you because you are treating her like she is stupid (and thus she feels like she can act that way) 4) If she comes out of time out, lock her in the the predetermined lock spot for time out. Tell her that you are so sad that you have to do this and show EMPATHY for her choice. But, be brief. Firm. Consistent. 5) At some time, apologize for spanking her. Tell her that being a Daddy is the hardest job you have ever had. Ask her to help you figure it out and forgive you for doing something that might have hurt her feelings. This is a valuable lesson in forgiveness and accountability that she will remember. WOW am I obsessed with parenting or what!! Good luck! PS I am Rachel's friend...tell her I said hi!
LOVE this post! Boy can you write, Ben! I love your tricks with words and captivating me with your stories and pictures. I have toiled over this same subject about 3 million times. I think I have it figured out.
ReplyDeleteHere is my advice: 1)Give her choices and some freedom in the matter. Then she won't fight back. "do you want to walk or be carried to time out? Which timer would you like me to use? then remind her ONE TIME that if she makes the choice to leave the time out spot, then you will have to find a more restrictive way to force her to stay. Tell her it would make her and you very sad to lock her in the closet. Remember...only tell her once. repeating your instructions offends her intelligence and makes her think she can play with you because you are treating her like she is stupid (and thus she feels like she can act that way) 4) If she comes out of time out, lock her in the the predetermined lock spot for time out. Tell her that you are so sad that you have to do this and show EMPATHY for her choice. But, be brief. Firm. Consistent. 5) At some time, apologize for spanking her. Tell her that being a Daddy is the hardest job you have ever had. Ask her to help you figure it out and forgive you for doing something that might have hurt her feelings. This is a valuable lesson in forgiveness and accountability that she will remember. WOW am I obsessed with parenting or what!! Good luck! PS I am Rachel's friend...tell her I said hi!
Hey Ben. We haven't talked in a while, but I thought I'd check out your blog about the new baby. Congratulations! He is so gorgeous and just perfect.
ReplyDeleteI stumbled on this post and it really intrigued me since I now have an 18 month old of my own. My friends were lecturing me a while back about putting Adeline on time-out (she was about 15 months old). They claimed no time-outs until age 2 and I was so cruel and that she'd be emotionally scared, etc, etc. So one day she was pulling the plug out of an outlet again and after I'd told her no a few times I reached down and smacked her hand (lightly) in desperation and repeated "Momma said 'NO!'". All I kept thinking was how I couldn't do time-outs anymore. Well, she looked up at me shocked, held her hand to her chest and said, "ouchie?" and started to cry. I will never forget the look of betrayal in her eyes. "Mom actually hurt me." is what they said to me. I felt like I had broken her trust at that moment. I am suppose to protect her not hurt her. Maybe it's because my daughter is much younger than yours that it happened in that way. I vowed to never raise a hand to her again. I've recently gone back to time-outs. I've heard/read that when they stop working that restriction and taking away privileges are quite effective in teaching a child consequences.
Anyway, my husband and I were spanked throughout childhood. Mike's dad actually did use the belt and my mom a wooden spoon. Mike is pretty well adjusted, but it never worked as a disciplinary technique for me. I started behaving much better when my dad started to give me "talks" around 10 years old. I have decided to try (key word try) this approach from the get go with my own daughter. Take care!
By the way this Rebecca Barron. :)
ReplyDeleteI think every parent goes through this dilemma. James and I agreed we would not spank our kids (although often tempting with our toddler). I really love this book called "Positive Discipline." It outlines how the word discipline really means 'to teach,' not punish as most think, and creative ways to be consistent etc. While reading I realized how inconsistent I was parenting. It gives an examples of how to outline choices and consequences from the beginning (you can pick either the ice cream or the candy, but then we are done with treats, if you start begging for more we will leave the zoo. Then if they pick one, and start up again with the begging, don't remind them of their consequence, just leave the zoo. They are smart enough to put it together.) I loved this because I found myself threatening all the time without real follow through. Also, I found that I was always over explaining..."now june, what did I say about creating the mud pit..."
ReplyDeleteI actually need to go back and re-read the book as I feel I am a complete failure as a parent after adding this second baby...
Good Luck!